Ath。Whenthingshaveanaccompanyingcharm，eitherthebestthinginthemisthisverycharm，orthereissomerightnessorutilitypossessedbythem；-forexample，Ishouldsaythateatinganddrinking，andtheuseoffoodingeneral，haveanaccompanyingcharmwhichwecallpleasure；butthatthisrightnessandutilityisjustthehealthfulnessofthethingsserveduptous，whichistheirtruerightness。
Cle。Justso。
Ath。Thus，too，Ishouldsaythatlearninghasacertainaccompanyingcharmwhichisthepleasure；butthattherightandtheprofitable，thegoodandthenoble，arequalitieswhichthetruthgivestoit。
Cle。Exactly。
Ath。Andsointheimitativearts-iftheysucceedinmakinglikenesses，andareaccompaniedbypleasure，maynottheirworksbesaidtohaveacharm？
Cle。Yes。
Ath。Butequalproportions，whetherofqualityorquantity，andnotpleasure，speakinggenerally，wouldgivethemtruthorrightness。
Cle。Yes。
Ath。Thenthatonlycanberightlyjudgedbythestandardofpleasure，whichmakesorfurnishesnoutilityortruthorlikeness，norontheotherhandisproductiveofanyhurtfulquality，butexistssolelyforthesakeoftheaccompanyingcharm；andtheterm“pleasure“
ismostappropriatelyappliedtoitwhentheseotherqualitiesareabsent。
Cle。Youarespeakingofharmlesspleasure，areyounot？
Ath。Yes；andthisItermamusement，whendoingneitherharmnorgoodinanydegreeworthspeakingof。
Cle。Verytrue。
Ath。Then，ifsuchbeourprinciples，wemustassertthatimitationisnottobejudgedofbypleasureandfalseopinion；andthisistrueofallequality，fortheequalisnotequalorthesymmetricalsymmetrical，becausesomebodythinksorlikessomething，buttheyaretobejudgedofbythestandardoftruth，andbynootherwhatever。
Cle。Quitetrue。
Ath。Dowenotregardallmusicasrepresentativeandimitative？
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Then，whenanyonesaysthatmusicistobejudgedofbypleasure，hisdoctrinecannotbeadmitted；andiftherebeanymusicofwhichpleasureisthecriterion，suchmusicisnottobesoughtoutordeemedtohaveanyrealexcellence，butonlythatotherkindofmusicwhichisanimitationofthegood。
Cle。Verytrue。
Ath。Andthosewhoseekforthebestkindofsongandmusicoughtnottoseekforthatwhichispleasant，butforthatwhichistrue；
andthetruthofimitationconsists，asweweresaying，inrenderingthethingimitatedaccordingtoquantityandquality。
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Andeveryonewilladmitthatmusicalcompositionsareallimitativeandrepresentative。Willnotpoetsandspectatorsandactorsallagreeinthis？
Cle。Theywill。
Ath。Surelythenhewhowouldjudgecorrectlymustknowwhateachcompositionis；forifhedoesnotknowwhatisthecharacterandmeaningofthepiece，andwhatitrepresents，hewillneverdiscernwhethertheintentionistrueorfalse。
Cle。Certainlynot。
Ath。Andwillhewhodoesnotknowwhatistruebeabletodistinguishwhatisgoodandbad？Mystatementisnotveryclear；
butperhapsyouwillunderstandmebetterifIputthematterinanotherway。
Cle。How？
Ath。Therearetenthousandlikenessesofobjectsofsight？
Cle。Yes。
Ath。Andcanhewhodoesnotknowwhattheexactobjectiswhichisimitated，everknowwhethertheresemblanceistruthfullyexecuted？
Imean，forexample，whetherastatuehastheproportionsofabody，andthetruesituationoftheparts；whatthoseproportionsare，andhowthepartsfitintooneanotherindueorder；alsotheircoloursandconformations，orwhetherthisisallconfusedintheexecution：
doyouthinkthatanyonecanknowaboutthis，whodoesnotknowwhattheanimaliswhichhasbeenimitated？
Cle。Impossible。
Ath。Butevenifweknowthatthethingpicturedorsculpturedisaman，whohasreceivedatthehandoftheartistallhisproperpartsandcoloursandshapes，mustwenotalsoknowwhethertheworkisbeautifulorinanyrespectdeficientinbeauty？
Cle。Ifthiswerenotrequired，Stranger，weshouldallofusbejudgesofbeauty。
Ath。Verytrue；andmaywenotsaythatineverythingimitated，whetherindrawing，music，oranyotherart，hewhoistobeacompetentjudgemustpossessthreethings；-hemustknow，inthefirstplace，ofwhattheimitationis；secondly，hemustknowthatitistrue；andthirdly，thatithasbeenwellexecutedinwordsandmelodiesandrhythms？
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Thenletusnotfaintindiscussingthepeculiardifficultyofmusic。Musicismorecelebratedthananyotherkindofimitation，andthereforerequiresthegreatestcareofthemall。Forifamanmakesamistakehere，hemaydohimselfthegreatestinjurybywelcomingevildispositions，andthemistakemaybeverydifficulttodiscern，becausethepoetsareartistsveryinferiorincharactertotheMusesthemselves，whowouldneverfallintothemonstrouserrorofassigningtothewordsofmenthegesturesandsongsofwomen；
noraftercombiningthemelodieswiththegesturesoffreemenwouldtheyaddontherhythmsofslavesandmenofthebasersort；nor，beginningwiththerhythmsandgesturesoffreemen，wouldtheyassigntothemamelodyorwordswhichareofanoppositecharacter；
norwouldtheymixupthevoicesandsoundsofanimalsandofmenandinstruments，andeveryothersortofnoise，asiftheywereallone。Buthumanpoetsarefondofintroducingthissortofinconsistentmixture，andsomakethemselvesridiculousintheeyesofthosewho，asOrpheussays，“areripefortruepleasure。“Theexperiencedseeallthisconfusion，andyetthepoetsgoonandmakestillfurtherhavocbyseparatingtherhythmandthefigureofthedancefromthemelody，settingbarewordstometre，andalsoseparatingthemelodyandtherhythmfromthewords，usingthelyreortheflutealone。
Forwhentherearenowords，itisverydifficulttorecognizethemeaningoftheharmonyandrhythm，ortoseethatanyworthyobjectisimitatedbythem。Andwemustacknowledgethatallthissortofthing，whichaimsonlyatswiftnessandsmoothnessandabrutishnoise，andusesthefluteandthelyrenotasthemereaccompanimentsofthedanceandsong，isexceedinglycoarseandtasteless。Theuseofeitherinstrument，whenunaccompanied，leadstoeverysortofirregularityandtrickery。Thisisallrationalenough。Butweareconsideringnothowourchoristers，whoarefromthirtytofiftyyearsofage，andmaybeoverfifty，arenottousetheMuses，buthowtheyaretousethem。Andtheconsiderationswhichwehaveurgedseemtoshowinwhatwaythesefiftyyear-oldchoristerswhoaretosing，maybeexpectedtobebettertrained。Fortheyneedtohaveaquickperceptionandknowledgeofharmoniesandrhythms；otherwise，howcantheyeverknowwhetheramelodywouldberightlysungtotheDorianmode，ortotherhythmwhichthepoethasassignedtoit？
Cle。Clearlytheycannot。
Ath。Themanyareridiculousinimaginingthattheyknowwhatisinproperharmonyandrhythm，andwhatisnot，whentheycanonlybemadetosingandstepinrhythmbyforce；itneveroccurstothemthattheyareignorantofwhattheyaredoing。Noweverymelodyisrightwhenithassuitableharmonyandrhythm，andwrongwhenunsuitable。
Cle。Thatismostcertain。
Ath。Butcanamanwhodoesnotknowathing，asweweresaying，knowthatthethingisright？
Cle。Impossible。
Ath。Thennow，aswouldappear，wearemakingthediscoverythatournewly-appointedchoristers，whomweherebyinviteand，althoughtheyaretheirownmasters，compeltosing，mustbeeducatedtosuchanextentastobeabletofollowthestepsoftherhythmandthenotesofthesong，thattheymayknowtheharmoniesandrhythms，andbeabletoselectwhataresuitableformenoftheirageandcharactertosing；andmaysingthem，andhaveinnocentpleasurefromtheirownperformance，andalsoleadyoungermentowelcomewithdutifuldelightgooddispositions。Havingsuchtraining，theywillattainamoreaccurateknowledgethanfallstothelotofthecommonpeople，orevenofthepoetsthemselves。Forthepoetneednotknowthethirdpoint，viz。，whethertheimitationisgoodornot，thoughhecanhardlyhelpknowingthelawsofmelodyandrhythm。Buttheagedchorusmustknowallthethree，thattheymaychoosethebest，andthatwhichisnearesttothebest；forotherwisetheywillneverbeabletocharmthesoulsofyoungmeninthewayofvirtue。AndnowtheoriginaldesignoftheargumentwhichwasintendedtobringeloquentaidtotheChorusofDionysus，hasbeenaccomplishedtothebestofourability，andletusseewhetherwewereright：-Ishouldimaginethatadrinkingassemblyislikelytobecomemoreandmoretumultuousasthedrinkinggoeson：this，asweweresayingatfirst，willcertainlybethecase。
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Everymanhasamorethannaturalelevation；hisheartisgladwithinhim，andhewillsayanythingandwillberestrainedbynobodyatsuchatime；hefanciesthatheisabletoruleoverhimselfandallmankind。
Cle。Quitetrue。