Cle。Thattheyshouldbeequal，my；good，sir，isimpossible。
Ath。Thenweoughttoproceedtosomemoreexacttrainingthananywhichhaspreceded。
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Andmustnotthatofwhichweareinneedbetheonetowhichwewerejustnowalluding？
Cle。Verytrue。
Ath。Didwenotsaythattheworkmanorguardian，ifhebeperfectineveryrespect，oughtnotonlytobeabletoseethemanyaims，butheshouldpressonwardtotheone？thisheshouldknow，andknowing，orderallthingswithaviewtoit。
Cle。True。
Ath。Andcananyonehaveamoreexactwayofconsideringorcontemplating。anything，thanthebeingabletolookatoneideagatheredfrommanydifferentthings？
Cle。Perhapsnot。
Ath。Not“Perhapsnot，“but“Certainlynot，“mygoodsir，istherightanswer。Thereneverhasbeenatruermethodthanthisdiscoveredbyanyman。
Cle。Ibowtoyourauthority，Stranger；letusproceedinthewaywhichyoupropose。
Ath。Then，aswouldappear，wemustcompeltheguardiansofourdivinestatetoperceive，inthefirstplace，whatthatprincipleiswhichisthesameinallthefour-thesame，asweaffirm，incourageandintemperance，andinjusticeandinprudence，andwhich，beingone，wecallasweought，bythesinglenameofvirtue。Tothis，myfriends，wewill，ifyouplease，holdfast，andnotletgountilwehavesufficientlyexplainedwhatthatistowhichwearetolook，whethertoberegardedasone，orasawhole，orasboth，orinwhateverway。Arewelikelyevertobeinavirtuouscondition，ifwecannottellwhethervirtueismany，orfour，orone？Certainly，ifwetakecounselamongourselves，weshallinsomewaycontrivethatthisprinciplehasaplaceamongstus；butifyouhavemadeupyourmindthatweshouldletthematteralone，wewill。
Cle。Wemustnot，Stranger，bytheGodofstrangersIswearthatwemustnot，forinouropinionyouspeakmosttruly；butweshouldliketoknowhowyouwillaccomplishyourpurpose。
Ath。Waitalittlebeforeyouask；andletus，firstofall，bequiteagreedwithoneanotherthatthepurposehastobeaccomplished。
Cle。Certainly，itoughttobe，ifitcanbe。
Ast。Well，andaboutthegoodandthehonourable，arewetotakethesameview？Areourguardiansonlytoknowthateachofthemismany，or，alsohowandinwhatwaytheyareone？
Cle。Theymustconsideralsoinwhatsensetheyareone。
Ath。Andaretheytoconsideronly，andtobeunabletosetforthwhattheythink？
Cle。Certainlynot；thatwouldbethestateofaslave。
Ath。Andmaynotthesamebesaidofallgoodthings-thatthetrueguardiansofthelawsoughttoknowthetruthaboutthem，andtobeabletointerprettheminwords，andcarrythemoutinaction，judgingofwhatisandwhatisnotwell，accordingtonature？
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。IsnottheknowledgeoftheGodswhichwehavesetforthwithsomuchzealoneofthenoblestsortsofknowledge；-toknowthattheyare，andknowhowgreatistheirpower，asfarasinmanlies？doindeedexcusethemassofthecitizens，whoonlyfollowthevoiceofthelaws，butwerefusetoadmitasguardiansanywhodonotlabourtoobtaineverypossibleevidencethatthereisrespectingtheGods；
ourcityisforbiddenandnotallowedtochooseasaguardianofthelaw，ortoplaceintheselectorderofvirtue，himwhoisnotaninspiredman，andhasnotlabouredatthesethings。
Cle。Itiscertainlyjust，asyousay，thathewhoisindolentaboutsuchmattersorincapableshouldberejected，andthatthingshonourableshouldbeputawayfromhim。
Ath。AreweassuredthattherearetwothingswhichleadmentobelieveintheGods，aswehavealreadystated？
Cle。Whatarethey？
Ath。Oneistheargumentaboutthesoul，whichhasbeenalreadymentioned-thatitistheeldest，andmostdivineofallthings，towhichmotionattaininggenerationgivesperpetualexistence；theotherwasanargumentfromtheorderofthemotionofthestars，andofallthingsunderthedominionofthemindwhichorderedtheuniverse。Ifamanlookupontheworldnotlightlyorignorantly，therewasneveranyonesogodlesswhodidnotexperienceaneffectoppositetothatwhichthemanyimagine。Fortheythinkthatthosewhohandlethesemattersbythehelpofastronomy，andtheaccompanyingartsofdemonstration，maybecomegodless，becausetheysee，asfarastheycansee，thingshappeningbynecessity，andnotbyanintelligentwillaccomplishinggood。
Cle。Butwhatisthefact？
Ath。Justtheopposite，asIsaid，oftheopinionwhichonceprevailedamongmen，thatthesunandstarsarewithoutsoul。Eveninthosedaysmenwonderedaboutthem，andthatwhichisnowascertainedwasthenconjecturedbysomewhohadamoreexactknowledgeofthem-thatiftheyhadbeenthingswithoutsoul，andhadnomind，theycouldneverhavemovedwithnumericalexactnesssowonderful；andevenatthattimesomeventuredtohazardtheconjecturethatmindwastheordereroftheuniverse。Butthesesamepersonsagainmistakingthenatureofthesoul，whichtheyconceivedtobeyoungerandnotolderthanthebody，oncemoreoverturnedtheworld，orrather，Ishouldsay，themselves；forthebodieswhichtheysawmovinginheavenallappearedtobefullofstones，andearth，andmanyotherlifelesssubstances，andtothesetheyassignedthecausesofallthings。Suchstudiesgaverisetomuchatheismandperplexity，andthepoetstookoccasiontobeabusive-comparingthephilosopherstoshe-dogsutteringvainhowlings，andtalkingothernonsenseofthesamesort。Butnow，asIsaid，thecaseisreversed。
Cle。Howso？
Ath。NomancanbeatrueworshipperoftheGodswhodoesnotknowthesetwoprinciples-thatthesoulistheeldestofallthingswhichareborn，andisimmortalandrulesoverallbodies；moreover，asI
havenowsaidseveraltimes，hewhohasnotcontemplatedthemindofnaturewhichissaidtoexistinthestars，andgonethroughtheprevioustraining，andseentheconnectionofmusicwiththesethings，andharmonizedthemallwithlawsandinstitutions，isnotabletogiveareasonofsuchthingsashaveareason。Andhewhoisunabletoacquirethisinadditiontotheordinaryvirtuesofacitizen，canhardlybeagoodrulerofawholestate；butheshouldbethesubordinateofotherrulers。Wherefore，CleiniasandMegillus，letusconsiderwhetherwemaynotaddtoalltheotherlawswhichwehavediscussedthisfurtherone-thatthenocturnalassemblyofthemagistrates，whichhasalsosharedinthewholeschemeofeducationproposedbyus，shallbeaguardsetaccordingtolawforthesalvationofthestate。Shallweproposethis？
Cle。Certainly，mygoodfriend，wewillifthethingisinanydegreepossible。
Ath。Letusmakeacommonefforttogainsuchanobject；forItoowillgladlyshareintheattempt。OfthesemattersIhavehadmuchexperience，andhaveoftenconsideredthem，andIdaresaythatI
shallbeabletofindotherswhowillalsohelp。
Cle。Iagree，Stranger，thatweshouldproceedalongtheroadinwhichGodisguidingus；andhowwecanproceedrightlyhasnowtobeinvestigatedandexplained。
Ath。OMegillusandCleinias，aboutthesematterswecannotlegislatefurtheruntilthecouncilisconstituted；whenthatisdone，thenwewilldeterminewhatauthoritytheyshallhaveoftheirown；
buttheexplanationofhowthisisalltobeorderedwouldonlybegivenrightlyinalongdiscourse。
Cle。Whatdoyoumean，andwhatnewthingisthis？
Ath。Inthefirstplace，alistwouldhavetobemadeoutofthosewhobytheiragesandstudiesanddispositionsandhabitsarewellfittedforthedutyofaguardian。Inthenextplace，itwillnotbeeasyforthemtodiscoverthemselveswhattheyoughttolearn，orbecomethediscipleofonewhohasalreadymadethediscovery。
Furthermore，towritedownthetimesatwhich，andduringwhich，theyoughttoreceivetheseveralkindsofinstruction，wouldbeavainthing；forthelearnersthemselvesdonotknowwhatislearnedtoadvantageuntiltheknowledgewhichistheresultoflearninghasfoundaplaceinthesoulofeach。Andsothesedetails，althoughtheycouldnotbetrulysaidtobesecret，mightbesaidtobeincapableofbeingstatedbeforehand，becausewhenstatedtheywouldhavenomeaning。
Cle。Whatthenarewetodo，Stranger，underthesecircumstances？
Ath。Astheproverbsays，theanswerisnosecret，butopentoallofus：-Wemustriskthewholeonthechanceofthrowing，astheysay，thricesixorthriceace，andIamwillingtosharewithyouthedangerbystatingandexplainingtoyoumyviewsabouteducationandnurture，whichisthequestioncomingtothesurfaceagain。Thedangerisnotaslightorordinaryone，andIwouldadviseyou，Cleinias，inparticular，toseetothematter；forifyouorderrightlythecityoftheMagnetes，orwhatevernameGodmaygiveit，youwillobtainthegreatestglory；oratanyrateyouwillbethoughtthemostcourageousofmenintheestimationofposterity。Dearcompanions，ifthisourdivineassemblycanonlybeestablished，tothemwewillhandoverthecity；noneofthepresentcompanyoflegislators，asImaycallthem，wouldhesitateaboutthat。Andthestatewillbeperfectedandbecomeawakingreality，whichalittlewhileagoweattemptedtocreateasadreamandinideaonly，minglingtogetherreasonandmindinoneimage，inthehopethatourcitizensmightbedulymingledandrightlyeducated；andbeingeducated，anddwellinginthecitadeloftheland，mightbecomeperfectguardians，suchaswehaveneverseeninallourpreviouslife，byreasonofthesavingvirtuewhichisinthem。
Meg。DearCleinias，afterallthathasbeensaid，eitherwemustdetaintheStranger，andbysupplicationsandinallmannerofwaysmakehimshareinthefoundationofthecity，orwemustgiveuptheundertaking。
Cle。Verytrue，Megillus；andyoumustjoinwithmeindetaininghim。
Meg。Iwill-
THEEND-