Cle。Thereissomethingridiculous，Stranger，inourproposingsuchanalternativeasifwewerelegislators，simplyboundundersomegreatnecessitywhichcannotbedeferredtothemorrow。Butwe，asI
maybygraceofHeavenaffirm，like，gatherersofstonesorbeginnersofsomecompositework，maygatheraheapofmaterials，andoutofthis，atourleisure，selectwhatissuitableforourprojectedconstruction。Letusthensupposeourselvestobeatleisure，notofnecessitybuilding，butratherlikemenwhoarepartlyprovidingmaterials，andpartlyputtingthemtogether。Andwemaytrulysaythatsomeofourlaws，likestones，arealreadyfixedintheirplaces，andotherslieathand。
Ath。Certainly，inthatcase，Cleinias，ourviewoflawwillbemoreinaccordancewithnature。Forthereisanothermatteraffectinglegislators，whichImustearnestlyentreatyoutoconsider。
Cle。Whatisit？
Ath。Therearemanywritingstobefoundincities，andamongthemthere，arecomposedbylegislatorsaswellasbyotherpersons。
Cle。Tobesure。
Ath。Shallwegiveheedrathertothewritingsofthoseothers-poetsandthelike，whoeitherinmetreoroutofmetrehaverecordedtheiradviceabouttheconductoflife，andnottothewritingsoflegislators？orshallwegiveheedtothemaboveall？
Cle。Yes；tothemfaraboveallothers。
Ath。Andoughtthelegislatoraloneamongwriterstowithholdhisopinionaboutthebeautiful，thegood，andthejust，andnottoteachwhattheyare，andhowtheyaretobepursuedbythosewhointendtobehappy？
Cle。Certainlynot。
Ath。AndisitdisgracefulforHomerandTyrtaeusandotherpoetstolaydownevilpreceptsintheirwritingsrespectinglifeandthepursuitsofmen，butnotsodisgracefulforLycurgusandSolonandotherswhowerelegislatorsaswellaswriters？Isitnottruethatofallthewritingstobefoundincities，thosewhichrelatetolaws，whenyouunfoldandreadthem，oughttobebyfarthenoblestandthebest？andshouldnototherwritingseitheragreewiththem，oriftheydisagree，bedeemedridiculous？Weshouldconsiderwhetherthelawsofstatesoughtnottohavethecharacteroflovingandwiseparents，ratherthanoftyrantsandmasters，whocommandandthreaten，and，afterwritingtheirdecreesonwalls，gotheirways；andwhether，indiscoursingoflaws，weshouldnottakethegentlerviewofthemwhichmayormaynotbeattainable-atanyrate，wewillshowourreadinesstoentertainsuchaview，andbepreparedtoundergowhatevermaybetheresult。Andmaytheresultbegood，andifGodbegracious，itwillbegood!
Cle。Excellent；letusdoasyousay。
Ath。Thenwewillnowconsideraccurately，asweproposed，whatrelatestorobbersoftemples，andallkindsofthefts，andoffencesingeneral；andwemustnotbeannoyedif，inthecourseoflegislation，wehaveenactedsomethings，andhavenotmadeupourmindsaboutsomeothers；forasyetwearenotlegislators，butwemaysoonbe。Letus，ifyouplease，considerthesematters。
Cle。Byallmeans。
Ath。Concerningallthingshonourableandjust，letusthenendeavourtoascertainhowfarweareconsistentwithourselves，andhowfarweareinconsistent，andhowfarthemany，fromwhomatanyrateweshouldprofessadesiretodiffer，agreeanddisagreeamongthemselves。
Cle。Whataretheinconsistencieswhichyouobserveinus？
Ath。Iwillendeavourtoexplain。IfIamnotmistaken，weareallagreedthatjustice，andjustmenandthingsandactions，areallfair，and，ifapersonweretomaintainthatjustmen，evenwhentheyaredeformedinbody，arestillperfectlybeautifulinrespectoftheexcellentjusticeoftheirminds，noonewouldsaythattherewasanyinconsistencyinthis。
Cle。Theywouldbequiteright。
Ath。Perhaps；butletusconsiderfurther，thatifallthingswhicharejustarefairandhonourable，intheterm“all“wemustincludejustsufferingswhicharethecorrelativesofjustactions。
Cle。Andwhatistheinference？
Ath。Theinferenceis，thatajustactioninpartakingofthejustpartakesalsointhesamedegreeofthefairandhonourable。
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Andmustnotasufferingwhichpartakesofthejustprinciplebeadmittedtobeinthesamedegreefairandhonourable，iftheargumentisconsistentlycarriedout？
Cle。True。
Ath。Butthenifweadmitsufferingtobejustandyetdishonourable，andtheterm“dishonourable“isappliedtojustice，willnotthejustandthehonourabledisagree？
Cle。Whatdoyoumean？
Ath。Athingnotdifficulttounderstand；thelawswhichhavebeenalreadyenactedwouldseemtoannounceprinciplesdirectlyopposedtowhatwearesaying。
Cle。Towhat？
Ath。Wehadenacted，ifIamnotmistaken，thattherobberoftemples，andhewhowastheenemyoflawandorder，mightjustlybeputtodeath，andwewereproceedingtomakediversotherenactmentsofasimilarnature。Butwestoppedshort，becausewesawthatthesesufferingsareinfiniteinnumberanddegree，andthattheyare，atonce，themostjustandalsothemostdishonourableofallsufferings。
Andifthisbetrue，arenotthejustandthehonourableatonetimeallthesame，andatanothertimeinthemostdiametricalopposition？
Cle。Suchappearstobethecase。
Ath。Inthisdiscordantandinconsistentfashiondoesthelanguageofthemanyrendasunderthehonourableandjust。
Cle。Verytrue，Stranger。
Ath。Thennow，Cleinias，letusseehowfarweourselvesareconsistentaboutthesematters。
Cle。Consistentinwhat？
Ath。IthinkthatIhaveclearlystatedintheformerpartofthediscussion，butifIdidnot，letmenowstate-
Cle。What？
Ath。Thatallbadmenarealwaysinvoluntarilybad；andfromthismustproceedtodrawafurtherinference。
Cle。Whatisit？
Ath。Thattheunjustmanmaybebad，butthatheisbadagainsthiswill。Nowthatanactionwhichisvoluntaryshouldbedoneinvoluntarilyisacontradiction；whereforehewhomaintainsthatinjusticeisinvoluntarywilldeemthattheunjustdoesinjusticeinvoluntarily。Itooadmitthatallmendoinjusticeinvoluntarily，andifanycontentiousordisputatiouspersonsaysthatmenareunjustagainsttheirwill，andyetthatmanydoinjusticewillingly，Idonotagreewithhim。But，then，howcanIavoidbeinginconsistentwithmyself，ifyou，Cleinias，andyou，Megillus，saytome-Well，Stranger，ifallthisbeasyousay，howaboutlegislatingforthecityoftheMagnetes-shallwelegislateornot-whatdoyouadvise？Certainlywewill，Ishouldreply。Thenwillyoudetermineforthemwhatarevoluntaryandwhatareinvoluntarycrimes，andshallwemakethepunishmentsgreaterofvoluntaryerrorsandcrimesandlessfortheinvoluntary？orshallwemakethepunishmentofalltobealike，undertheideathatthereisnosuchthingasvoluntarycrime？
Cle。Verygood，Stranger；andwhatshallwesayinanswertotheseobjections？
Ath。Thatisaveryfairquestion。Inthefirstplace，letus-
Cle。Dowhat？
Ath。Letusrememberwhathasbeenwellsaidbyusalready，thatourideasofjusticeareinthehighestdegreeconfusedandcontradictory。
Bearingthisinmind，letusproceedtoaskourselvesoncemorewhetherwehavediscoveredawayoutofthedifficulty。Haveweeverdeterminedinwhatrespectthesetwoclassesofactionsdifferfromoneanother？Forinallstatesandbyalllegislatorswhatsoever，twokindsofactionshavebeendistinguished-theone，voluntary，theother，involuntary；andtheyhavelegislatedaboutthemaccordingly。
Butshallthisnewwordofours，likeanoracleofGod，beonlyspoken，andgetawaywithoutgivinganyexplanationorverificationofitself？Howcanawordnotunderstoodbethebasisoflegislation？
Impossible。Beforeproceedingtolegislate，then，wemustprovethattheyaretwo，andwhatisthedifferencebetweenthem，thatwhenweimposethepenaltyuponeither，everyonemayunderstandourproposal，andbeableinsomewaytojudgewhetherthepenaltyisfitlyorunfitlyinflicted。
Cle。Iagreewithyou，Stranger；foroneoftwothingsiscertain：
eitherwemustnotsaythatallunjustactsareinvoluntary，orwemustshowthemeaningandtruthofthisstatement。
Ath。Ofthesetwoalternatives，theoneisquiteintolerable-nottospeakwhatIbelievetobethetruthwouldbetomeunlawfulandunholy。Butifactsofinjusticecannotbedividedintovoluntaryandinvoluntary，Imustendeavourtofindsomeotherdistinctionbetweenthem。
Cle。Verytrue，Stranger；therecannotbetwoopinionsamongusuponthatpoint。
Ath。Reflect，then；therearehurtsofvariouskindsdonebythecitizenstooneanotherintheintercourseoflife，affordingplentifulexamplesbothofthevoluntaryandinvoluntary。
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Iwouldnothaveanyonesupposethatallthesehurtsareinjuries，andthattheseinjuriesareoftwokinds-one，voluntary，andtheother，involuntary；fortheinvoluntaryhurtsofallmenarequiteasmanyandasgreatasthevoluntary？AndpleasetoconsiderwhetherIamrightorquitewronginwhatIamgoingtosay；forI
deny，CleiniasandMegillus，thathewhoharmsanotherinvoluntarilydoeshimaninjuryinvoluntarily，norshouldIlegislateaboutsuchanactundertheideathatIamlegislatingforaninvoluntaryinjury。
ButIshouldrathersaythatsuchahurt，whethergreatorsmall，isnotaninjuryatall；and，ontheotherhand，ifIamright，whenabenefitiswronglyconferred，theauthorofthebenefitmayoftenbesaidtoinjure。ForImaintain，Omyfriends，thatthemeregivingortakingawayofanythingisnottobedescribedeitherasjustorunjust；butthelegislatorhastoconsiderwhethermankinddogoodorharmtooneanotheroutofajustprincipleandintention。Onthedistinctionbetweeninjusticeandhurthemustfixhiseye；andwhenthereishurt，hemust，asfarashecan，makethehurtgoodbylaw，andsavethatwhichisruined，andraiseupthatwhichisfallen，andmakethatwhichisdeadorwoundedwhole。Andwhencompensationhasbeengivenforinjustice，thelawmustalwaysseektowinoverthedoersandsufferersoftheseveralhurtsfromfeelingsofenmitytothoseoffriendship。
Cle。Verygood。