Ath。Thesame，myfriend；hedoesindeedfaroverleaptheheadsofallmankindbyhisinvention；forhecarriedoutinpractice，asyoudeclare，whatofoldHesiodonlypreached。
Cle。Yes，accordingtoourtradition。
Ath。Afterthegreatdestruction，maywenotsupposethatthestateofmanwassomethingofthissort：-Inthebeginningofthingstherewasafearfulillimitabledesertandavastexpanseofland；aherdortwoofoxenwouldbetheonlysurvivorsoftheanimalworld；
andtheremightbeafewgoats，thesetoohardlyenoughtomaintaintheshepherdswhotendedthem？
Cle。True。
Ath。Andofcitiesorgovernmentsorlegislation，aboutwhichwearenowtalking，doyousupposethattheycouldhaveanyrecollectionatall？
Cle。Nonewhatever。
Ath。Andoutofthisstateofthingshastherenotsprungallthatwenowareandhave：citiesandgovernments，andartsandlaws，andagreatdealofviceandagreatdealofvirtue？
Cle。Whatdoyoumean？
Ath。Why，mygoodfriend，howcanwepossiblysupposethatthosewhoknewnothingofallthegoodandevilofcitiescouldhaveattainedtheirfulldevelopment，whetherofvirtueorofvice？
Cle。Iunderstandyourmeaning，andyouarequiteright。
Ath。But，astimeadvancedandtheracemultiplied，theworldcametobewhattheworldis。
Cle。Verytrue。
Ath。Doubtlessthechangewasnotmadeallinamoment，butlittlebylittle，duringaverylongperiodoftime。
Cle。Ahighlyprobablesupposition。
Ath。Atfirst，theywouldhaveanaturalfearringingintheirearswhichwouldpreventtheirdescendingfromtheheightsintotheplain。
Cle。Ofcourse。
Ath。Thefewnessofthesurvivorsatthattimewouldhavemadethemallthemoredesirousofseeingoneanother；butthenthemeansoftravellingeitherbylandorseahadbeenalmostentirelylost，asImaysay，withthelossofthearts，andtherewasgreatdifficultyingettingatoneanother；forironandbrassandallmetalswerejumbledtogetherandhaddisappearedinthechaos；norwasthereanypossibilityofextractingorefromthem；andtheyhadscarcelyanymeansoffellingtimber。Evenifyousupposethatsomeimplementsmighthavebeenpreservedinthemountains，theymustquicklyhavewornoutandvanished，andtherewouldbenomoreofthemuntiltheartofmetallurgyhadagainrevived。
Cle。Therecouldnothavebeen。
Ath。Inhowmanygenerationswouldthisbeattained？
Cle。Clearly，notformanygenerations。
Ath。Duringthisperiod，andforsometimeafterwards，alltheartswhichrequireironandbrassandthelikewoulddisappear。
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Factionandwarwouldalsohavediedoutinthosedays，andformanyreasons。
Cle。Howwouldthatbe？
Ath。Inthefirstplace，thedesolationoftheseprimitivemenwouldcreateinthemafeelingofaffectionandgood-willtowardsoneanother；and，secondly，theywouldhavenooccasiontoquarrelabouttheirsubsistence，fortheywouldhavepastureinabundance，exceptjustatfirst，andinsomeparticularcases；andfromtheirpasture-landtheywouldobtainthegreaterpartoftheirfoodinaprimitiveage，havingplentyofmilkandflesh；moreovertheywouldprocureotherfoodbythechase，nottobedespisedeitherinquantityorquality。Theywouldalsohaveabundanceofclothing，andbedding，anddwellings，andutensilseithercapableofstandingonthefireornot；fortheplasticandweavingartsdonotrequireanyuseofiron：andGodhasgiventhesetwoartstomaninordertoprovidehimwithallsuchthings，that，whenreducedtothelastextremity，thehumanracemaystillgrowandincrease。Henceinthosedaysmankindwerenotverypoor；norwaspovertyacauseofdifferenceamongthem；andrichtheycouldnothavebeen，havingneithergoldnorsilver：-suchatthattimewastheircondition。Andthecommunitywhichhasneitherpovertynorricheswillalwayshavethenoblestprinciples；initthereisnoinsolenceorinjustice，nor，again，arethereanycontentionsorenvyings。Andthereforetheyweregood，andalsobecausetheywerewhatiscalledsimple-minded；andwhentheyweretoldaboutgoodandevil，theyintheirsimplicitybelievedwhattheyheardtobeverytruthandpractisedit。Noonehadthewittosuspectanotherofafalsehood，asmendonow；butwhattheyheardaboutGodsandmentheybelievedtobetrue，andlivedaccordingly；andthereforetheywereinallrespectssuchaswehavedescribedthem。
Cle。Thatquiteaccordswithmyviews，andwiththoseofmyfriendhere。
Ath。Wouldnotmanygenerationslivingoninasimplemanner，althoughruder，perhaps，andmoreignorantoftheartsgenerally，andinparticularofthoseoflandornavalwarfare，andlikewiseofotherarts，termedincitieslegalpracticesandpartyconflicts，andincludingallconceivablewaysofhurtingoneanotherinwordanddeed；-althoughinferiortothosewholivedbeforethedeluge，ortothemenofourdayintheserespects，wouldtheynot，Isay，besimplerandmoremanly，andalsomoretemperateandaltogethermorejust？Thereasonhasbeenalreadyexplained。
Cle。Verytrue。
Ath。Ishouldwishyoutounderstandthatwhathasprecededandwhatisabouttofollow，hasbeen，andwillbesaid，withtheintentionofexplainingwhatneedthemenofthattimehadoflaws，andwhowastheirlawgiver。
Cle。Andthusfarwhatyouhavesaidhasbeenverywellsaid。
Ath。Theycouldhardlyhavewantedlawgiversasyet；nothingofthatsortwaslikelytohaveexistedintheirdays，fortheyhadnolettersatthisearlyperiod；theylivedbyhabitandthecustomsoftheirancestors，astheyarecalled。
Cle。Probably。
Ath。Buttherewasalreadyexistingaformofgovernmentwhich，ifI
amnotmistaken，isgenerallytermedalordship，andthisstillremainsinmanyplaces，bothamongHellenesandbarbarians，andisthegovernmentwhichisdeclaredbyHomertohaveprevailedamongtheCyclopes：
Theyhaveneithercouncilsnorjudgments，buttheydwellinhollowcavesonthetopsofhighmountains，andeveryonegiveslawtohiswifeandchildren，andtheydonotbusythemselvesaboutoneanother。
Cle。Thatseemstobeacharmingpoetofyours；Ihavereadsomeotherversesofhis，whichareveryclever；butIdonotknowmuchofhim，forforeignpoetsareverylittlereadamongtheCretans。
Megillus。ButtheyareinLacedaemon，andheappearstobetheprinceofthemall；themanneroflife，however，whichhedescribesisnotSpartan，butratherIonian，andheseemsquitetoconfirmwhatyouaresaying，whenhetracesuptheancientstateofmankindbythehelpoftraditiontobarbarism。
Ath。Yes，hedoesconfirmit；andwemayaccepthiswitnesstothefactthatsuchformsofgovernmentsometimesarise。
Cle。Wemay。
Ath。Andwerenotsuchstatescomposedofmenwhohadbeendispersedinsinglehabitationsandfamiliesbythepovertywhichattendedthedevastations；anddidnottheeldestthenruleamongthem，becausewiththemgovernmentoriginatedintheauthorityofafatherandamother，whom，likeaflockofbirds，theyfollowed，formingonetroopunderthepatriarchalruleandsovereigntyoftheirparents，whichofallsovereigntiesisthemostjust？
Cle。Verytrue。
Ath。Afterthistheycametogetheringreaternumbers，andincreasedthesizeoftheircities，andbetookthemselvestohusbandry，firstofallatthefootofthemountains，andmadeenclosuresofloosewallsandworksofdefence，inordertokeepoffwildbeasts；thuscreatingasinglelargeandcommonhabitation。
Cle。Yes；atleastwemaysupposeso。
Ath。Thereisanotherthingwhichwouldprobablyhappen。
Cle。What？
Ath。Whentheselargerhabitationsgrewupoutofthelesseroriginalones，eachofthelesseroneswouldsurviveinthelarger；
everyfamilywouldbeundertheruleoftheeldest，and，owingtotheirseparationfromoneanother，wouldhavepeculiarcustomsinthingsdivineandhuman，whichtheywouldhavereceivedfromtheirseveralparentswhohadeducatedthem；andthesecustomswouldinclinethemtoorder，whentheparentshadtheelementoforderintheirnature，andtocourage，whentheyhadtheelementofcourage。Andtheywouldnaturallystampupontheirchildren，andupontheirchildren’schildren，theirownlikings；and，aswearesaying，theywouldfindtheirwayintothelargersociety，havingalreadytheirownpeculiarlaws。
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Andeverymansurelylikeshisownlawsbest，andthelawsofothersnotsowell。
Cle。True。
Ath。Thennowweseemtohavestumbleduponthebeginningsoflegislation。
Cle。Exactly。
Ath。Thenextstepwillbethatthesepersonswhohavemettogether，willselectsomearbiters，whowillreviewthelawsofallofthem，andwillpubliclypresentsuchastheyapprovetothechiefswholeadthetribes，andwhoareinamannertheirkings，allowingthemtochoosethosewhichtheythinkbest。Thesepersonswillthemselvesbecalledlegislators，andwillappointthemagistrates，framingsomesortofaristocracy，orperhapsmonarchy，outofthedynastiesorlordships，andinthisalteredstateofthegovernmenttheywilllive。
Cle。Yes，thatwouldbethenaturalorderofthings。
Ath。Then，nowletusspeakofathirdformofgovernment，inwhichallotherformsandconditionsofpolitiesandcitiesconcur。
Cle。Whatisthat？
Ath。TheformwhichinfactHomerindicatesasfollowingthesecond。
Thisthirdformarosewhen，ashesays，DardanusfoundedDardania：
FornotasyethadtheholyIliumbeenbuiltontheplaintobeacityofspeakingmen；buttheywerestilldwellingatthefootofmany-fountainedIda。
Forindeed，intheseverses，andinwhathesaidoftheCyclopes，hespeaksthewordsofGodandnature；forpoetsareadivineraceandoftenintheirstrains，bytheaidoftheMusesandtheGraces，theyattaintruth。
Cle。Yes。
Ath。Thennowletusproceedwiththerestofourtale，whichwillprobablybefoundtoillustrateinsomedegreeourproposeddesign：-Shallwedoso？