Ath。ComenowandletusalljoininaskingthisquestionofTyrtaeus：Omostdivinepoet，wewillsaytohim，theexcellentpraisewhichyouhavebestowedonthosewhoexcelinwarsufficientlyprovesthatyouarewiseandgood，andIandMegillusandCleiniasofCnosusdo，asIbelieve，entirelyagreewithyou。Butweshouldliketobequitesurethatwearespeakingofthesamemen；tellus，then，doyouagreewithusinthinkingthattherearetwokindsofwar；orwhatwouldyousay？AfarinferiormantoTyrtaeuswouldhavenodifficultyinreplyingquitetruly，thatwarisoftwokindsonewhichisuniversallycalledcivilwar，andisaswewerejustnowsaying，ofallwarstheworst；theother，asweshouldalladmit，inwhichwefalloutwithothernationswhoareofadifferentrace，isafarmilderformofwarfare。
Cle。Certainly，farmilder。
Ath。Well，now，whenyoupraiseandblamewarinthishigh-flownstrain，whomareyoupraisingorblaming，andtowhichkindofwarareyoureferring？Isupposethatyoumustmeanforeignwar，ifIamtojudgefromexpressionsofyoursinwhichyousaythatyouabominatethoseWhorefusetolookuponfieldsofblood，andwillnotdrawnearandstrikeattheirenemies。
Andweshallnaturallygoontosaytohim-You，Tyrtaeus，asitseems，praisethosewhodistinguishthemselvesinexternalandforeignwar；
andhemustadmitthis。
Cle。Evidently。
Ath。Theyaregood；butwesaythattherearestillbettermenwhosevirtueisdisplayedinthegreatestofallbattles。Andwetoohaveapoetwhomwesummonasawitness，Theognis，citizenofMegarainSicily：
Cyrnus，hewhoisfaithfulinacivilbroilisworthhisweightingoldandsilver。
Andsuchanoneisfarbetter，asweaffirm，thantheotherinamoredifficultkindofwar，muchinthesamedegreeasjusticeandtemperanceandwisdom，whenunitedwithcourage，arebetterthancourageonly；foramancannotbefaithfulandgoodincivilstrifewithouthavingallvirtue。ButinthewarofwhichTyrtaeusspeaks，manyamercenarysoldierwilltakehisstandandbereadytodieathispost，andyettheyaregenerallyandalmostwithoutexceptioninsolent，unjust，violentmen，andthemostsenselessofhumanbeings。
Youwillaskwhattheconclusionis，andwhatIamseekingtoprove：I
maintainthatthedivinelegislatorofCrete，likeanyotherwhoisworthyofconsideration，willalwaysandaboveallthingsinmakinglawshaveregardtothegreatestvirtue；which，accordingtoTheognis，isloyaltyinthehourofdanger，andmaybetrulycalledperfectjustice。Whereas，thatvirtuewhichTyrtaeushighlypraisesiswellenough，andwaspraisedbythepoetattherighttime，yetinplaceanddignitymaybesaidtobeonlyfourthrate。
Cle。Stranger，wearedegradingourinspiredlawgivertoarankwhichisfarbeneathhim。
Ath。Nay，Ithinkthatwedegradenothimbutourselves，ifweimaginethatLycurgusandMinoslaiddownlawsbothinLacedaemonandCretemainlywithaviewtowar。
Cle。Whatoughtwetosaythen？
Ath。Whattruthandwhatjusticerequireofus，ifIamnotmistaken，whenspeakinginbehalfofdivineexcellence；-atthelegislatorwhenmakinghislawshadinviewnotapartonly，andthisthelowestpartofvirtue，butallvirtue，andthathedevisedclassesoflawsansweringtothekindsofvirtue；notinthewayinwhichmoderninventorsoflawsmaketheclasses，fortheyonlyinvestigateandofferlawswheneverawantisfelt，andonemanhasaclassoflawsaboutallotmentsandheiresses，anotheraboutassaults；othersabouttenthousandothersuchmatters。Butwemaintainthattherightwayofexaminingintolawsistoproceedaswehavenowdone，andIadmiredthespiritofyourexposition；foryouwerequiterightinbeginningwithvirtue，andsayingthatthiswastheaimofthegiverofthelaw，butIthoughtthatyouwentwrongwhenyouaddedthatallhislegislationhadaviewonlytoapart，andtheleastpartofvirtue，andthiscalledforthmysubsequentremarks。
WillyouallowmethentoexplainhowIshouldhavelikedtohaveheardyouexpoundthematter？
Cle。Byallmeans。
Ath。Yououghttohavesaid，Stranger-TheCretanlawsarewithreasonfamousamongtheHellenes；fortheyfulfiltheobjectoflaws，whichistomakethosewhousethemhappy；andtheyconfereverysortofgood。Nowgoodsareoftwokinds：therearehumanandtherearedivinegoods，andthehumanhanguponthedivine；andthestatewhichattainsthegreater，atthesametimeacquirestheless，or，nothavingthegreater，hasneither。Ofthelessergoodsthefirstishealth，thesecondbeauty，thethirdstrength，includingswiftnessinrunningandbodilyagilitygenerally，andthefourthiswealth，nottheblindgod[Pluto]，butonewhoiskeenofsight，ifonlyhehaswisdomforhiscompanion。Forwisdomischiefandleaderofthedivinedassofgoods，andnextfollowstemperance；andfromtheunionofthesetwowithcouragespringsjustice，andfourthinthescaleofvirtueiscourage。Allthesenaturallytakeprecedenceoftheothergoods，andthisistheorderinwhichthelegislatormustplacethem，andafterthemhewillenjointherestofhisordinancesonthecitizenswithaviewtothese，thehumanlookingtothedivine，andthedivinelookingtotheirleadermind。Someofhisordinanceswillrelatetocontractsofmarriagewhichtheymakeonewithanother，andthentotheprocreationandeducationofchildren，bothmaleandfemale；thedutyofthelawgiverwillbetotakechargeofhiscitizens，inyouthandage，andateverytimeoflife，andtogivethempunishmentsandrewards；andinreferencetoalltheirintercoursewithoneanother，heoughttoconsidertheirpainsandpleasuresanddesires，andthevehemenceofalltheirpassions；heshouldkeepawatchoverthem，andblameandpraisethemrightlybythemouthofthelawsthemselves。Alsowithregardtoangerandterror，andtheotherperturbationsofthesoul，whichariseoutofmisfortune，andthedeliverancesfromthemwhichprosperitybrings，andtheexperienceswhichcometomenindiseases，orinwar，orpoverty，ortheoppositeofthese；inallthesestatesheshoulddetermineandteachwhatisthegoodandeviloftheconditionofeach。Inthenextplace，thelegislatorhastobecarefulhowthecitizensmaketheirmoneyandinwhatwaytheyspendit，andtohaveaneyetotheirmutualcontractsanddissolutionsofcontracts，whethervoluntaryorinvoluntary：heshouldseehowtheyorderallthis，andconsiderwherejusticeaswellasinjusticeisfoundoriswantingintheirseveraldealingswithoneanother；andhonourthosewhoobeythelaw，andimposefixedpenaltiesonthosewhodisobey，untiltheroundofcivillifeisended，andthetimehascomefortheconsiderationoftheproperfuneralritesandhonoursofthedead。
Andthelawgiverreviewinghiswork，willappointguardianstopresideoverthesethings-somewhowalkbyintelligence，othersbytrueopiniononly，andthenmindwillbindtogetherallhisordinancesandshowthemtobeinharmonywithtemperanceandjustice，andnotwithwealthorambition。Thisisthespirit，Stranger，inwhichI
wasandamdesirousthatyoushouldpursuethesubject。AndIwanttoknowthenatureofallthesethings，andhowtheyarearrangedinthelawsofZeus，astheyaretermed，andinthoseofthePythianApollo，whichMinosandLycurgusgave；andhowtheorderofthemisdiscoveredtohiseyes，whohasexperienceinlawsgainedeitherbystudyorhabit，althoughtheyarefarfrombeingself-evidenttotherestofmankindlikeourselves。
Cle。Howshallweproceed，Stranger？
Ath。Ithinkthatwemustbeginagainasbefore，andfirstconsiderthehabitofcourage；andthenwewillgoonanddiscussanotherandthenanotherformofvirtue，ifyouplease。Inthiswayweshallhaveamodelofthewhole；andwiththeseandsimilardiscourseswewillbeguiletheway。Andwhenwehavegonethroughallthevirtues，wewillshow，bythegraceofGod，thattheinstitutionsofwhichIwasspeakinglooktovirtue。
Meg。Verygood；andsupposethatyoufirstcriticizethispraiserofZeusandthelawsofCrete。
Ath。Iwilltrytocriticizeyouandmyself，aswellashim，fortheargumentisacommonconcern。Tellme-werenotfirstthesyssitia，andsecondlythegymnasia，inventedbyyourlegislatorwithaviewtowar？
Meg。Yes。
Ath。Andwhatcomesthird，andwhatfourth？Forthat，Ithink，isthesortofenumerationwhichoughttobemadeoftheremainingpartsofvirtue，nomatterwhetheryoucallthempartsorwhattheirnameis，providedthemeaningisclear。
Meg。ThenI，oranyotherLacedaemonian，wouldreplythathuntingisthirdinorder。
Ath。Letusseeifwecandiscoverwhatcomesfourthandfifth。
Meg。IthinkthatIcangetasfarasthefouthhead，whichisthefrequentenduranceofpain，exhibitedamongusSpartansincertainhand-to-handfights；alsoinstealingwiththeprospectofgettingagoodbeating；thereis，too，theso-calledCrypteia，orsecretservice，inwhichwonderfulenduranceisshown-ourpeoplewanderoverthewholecountrybydayandbynight，andeveninwinterhavenotashoetotheirfoot，andarewithoutbedstolieupon，andhavetoattenduponthemselves。Marvellous，too，istheendurancewhichourcitizensshowintheirnakedexercises，contendingagainsttheviolentsummerheat；andtherearemanysimilarpractices，tospeakofwhichindetailwouldbeendless。
Ath。Excellent，OLacedaemonianStranger。Buthowoughtwetodefinecourage？Isittoberegardedonlyasacombatagainstfearsandpains，oralsoagainstdesiresandpleasures，andagainstflatteries；whichexercisesuchatremendouspower，thattheymaketheheartsevenofrespectablecitizenstomeltlikewax？
Meg。Ishouldsaythelatter。
Ath。Inwhatpreceded，asyouwillremember，ourCnosianfriendwasspeakingofamanoracitybeinginferiortothemselves：-Wereyounot，Cleinias？
Cle。Iwas。
Ath。Now，whichisinthetruestsenseinferior，themanwhoisovercomebypleasureorbypain？
Cle。Ishouldsaythemanwhoisovercomebypleasure；forallmendeemhimtobeinferiorinamoredisgracefulsense，thantheotherwhoisovercomebypain。
Ath。ButsurelythelawgiversofCreteandLacedaemonhavenotlegislatedforacouragewhichislameofoneleg，ableonlytomeetattackswhichcomefromtheleft，butimpotentagainsttheinsidiousflatterieswhichcomefromtheright？
Cle。Abletomeetboth，Ishouldsay。
Ath。Thenletmeoncemoreask，whatinstitutionshaveyouineitherofyourstateswhichgiveatasteofpleasures，anddonotavoidthemanymorethantheyavoidpains；butwhichsetapersoninthemidstofthem，andcompelorinducehimbytheprospectofrewardtogetthebetterofthem？Whereisanordinanceaboutpleasuresimilartothataboutpaintobefoundinyourlaws？Tellmewhatthereisofthisnatureamongyou：-Whatistherewhichmakesyourcitizenequallybraveagainstpleasureandpain，conqueringwhattheyoughttoconquer，andsuperiortotheenemieswhoaremostdangerousandnearesthome？
Meg。Iwasabletotellyou，Stranger，manylawswhichweredirectedagainstpain；butIdonotknowthatIcanpointoutanygreatorobviousexamplesofsimilarinstitutionswhichareconcernedwithpleasure；therearesomelesserprovisions，however，whichImightmention。
Cle。NeithercanIshowanythingofthatsortwhichisatallequallyprominentintheCretanlaws。
Ath。Nowonder，mydearfriends；andif，asisverylikely，inoursearchafterthetrueandgood，oneofusmayhavetocensurethelawsoftheothers，wemustnotbeoffended，buttakekindlywhatanothersays。
Cle。Youarequiteright，AthenianStranger，andwewilldoasyousay。
Ath。Atourtimeoflife，Cleinias，thereshouldbenofeelingofirritation。
Cle。Certainlynot。