Buthowcanourlawsufficientlytrainthedirectorofeducation。
himself；forasyetallhasbeenimperfect，andnothinghasbeensaideitherclearorsatisfactory？Now，asfaraspossible，thelawoughttoleavenothingtohim，buttoexplaineverything，thathemaybeaninterpreterandtutortoothers。Aboutdancesandmusicandchoralstrains，Ihavealreadyspokenbothtothecharacteroftheselectionofthem，andthemannerinwhichtheyaretobeamendedandconsecrated。Butwehavenotasyetspoken，Oillustriousguardianofeducation，ofthemannerinwhichyourpupilsaretousethosestrainswhicharewritteninprose，althoughyouhavebeeninformedwhatmartialstrainstheyaretolearnandpractise；whatrelatesinthefirstplacetothelearningofletters，andsecondly，tothelyre，andalsotocalculation，which，asweweresaying，isneedfulforthemalltolearn，andanyotherthingswhicharerequiredwithaviewtowarandthemanagementofhouseandcity，and，lookingtothesameobject，whatisusefulintherevolutionsoftheheavenlybodies-thestarsandsunandmoon，andthevariousregulationsaboutthesematterswhicharenecessaryforthewholestate-Iamspeakingofthearrangementsof；daysinperiodsofmonths，andofmonthsinyears，whicharetobeobserved，inorderthatseasonsandsacrificesandfestivalsmayhavetheirregularandnaturalorder，andkeepthecityaliveandawake，theGodsreceivingthehonoursduetothem，andmenhavingabetterunderstandingaboutthem：allthesethings，Omyfriend，havenotyetbeensufficientlydeclaredtoyoubythelegislator。Attend，then，towhatIamnowgoingtosay：-Weweretellingyou，inthefirstplace，thatyouwerenotsufficientlyinformedaboutletters，andtheobjectionwastothiseffect-thatyouwerenevertoldwhetherhewhowasmeanttobearespectablecitizenshouldapplyhimselfindetailtothatsortoflearning，ornotapplyhimselfatall；andthesameremarkholdsgoodofthestudyofthelyre。Butnowwesaythatheoughttoattendtothem。A
fairtimeforaboyoftenyearsoldtospendinlettersisthreeyears；theageofthirteenisthepropertimeforhimtobegintohandlethelyre，andhemaycontinueatthisforanotherthreeyears，neithermorenorless，andwhetherhisfatherorhimselflikeordislikethestudy，heisnottobeallowedtospendmoreorlesstimeinlearningmusicthanthelawallows。Andlethimwhodisobeysthelawbedeprivedofthoseyouthfulhonoursofwhichweshallhereafterspeak。Hear，however，firstofall，whattheyoungoughttolearnintheearlyyearsoflife，andwhattheirinstructorsoughttoteachthem。Theyoughttobeoccupiedwiththeirlettersuntiltheyaretoreadandwrite；buttheacquisitionofperfectbeautyorquicknessinwritinig，ifnaturehasnotstimulatedthemtoacquiretheseaccomplishmentsinthegivennumberofyears，theyshouldletalone。Andastothelearningofcompositionscommittedtowritingwhicharenotsettothelyre，whethermetricalorwithoutrhythmicaldivisions，compositionsinprose，astheyaretermed，havingnorhythmorharmony-seeinghowdangerousarethewritingshandeddowntousbymanywritersofthisclass-whatwillyoudowiththem，Omostexcellentguardiansofthelaw？orhowcanthelawgiverrightlydirectyouaboutthem？Ibelievethathewillbeingreatdifficulty。
Cle。Whattroublesyou，Stranger？andwhyareyousoperplexedinyourmind？
Ath。Younaturallyask，Cleinias，andtoyouandMegillus，whoaremypartnersintheworkoflegislation，Imuststatethemoredifficultaswellastheeasierpartsofthetask。
Cle。Towhatdoyoureferinthisinstance？
Ath。Iwilltellyou。Thereisadifficultyinopposingmanymyriadsofmouths。
Cle。Well，andhavewenotalreadyopposedthepopularvoiceinmanyimportantenactments？
Ath。Thatisquitetrue；andyoumeantoimply，thattheroadwhichwearetakingmaybedisagreeabletosomebutisagreeabletoasmanyothers，orifnottoasmany，atanyratetopersonsnotinferiortotheothers，andincompanywiththemyoubidme，atwhateverrisk，toproceedalongthepathoflegislationwhichhasopenedoutofourpresentdiscourse，andtobeofgoodcheer，andnottofaint。
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。AndIdonotfaint；Isay，indeed，thatwehaveagreatmanypoetswritinginhexameter，trimeter，andallsortsofmeasures-somewhoareserious，otherswhoaimonlyatraisingalaugh-andallmankinddeclarethattheyouthwhoarerightlyeducatedshouldbebroughtupinthemandsaturatedwiththem；someinsistthattheyshouldbeconstantlyhearingthemreadaloud，andalwayslearningthem，soastogetbyheartentirepoets；whileothersselectchoicepassagesandlongspeeches，andmakecompendiumsofthem，sayingthattheseoughttobecommittedtomemory，ifamanistobemadegoodandwisebyexperienceandlearningofmanythings。Andyouwantmenowtotellthemplainlyinwhattheyarerightandinwhattheyarewrong。
Cle。Yes，Ido。
Ath。ButhowcanIinonewordrightlycomprehendallofthem？Iamofopinion，and，ifIamnotmistaken，thereisageneralagreement，thateveryoneofthesepoetshassaidmanythingswellandmanythingsthereverseofwell；andifthisbetrue，thenIdoaffirmthatmuchlearningisdangeroustoyouth。
Cle。Howwouldyouadvisetheguardianofthelawtoact？
Ath。Inwhatrespect？
Cle。Imeantowhatpatternshouldhelookashisguideinpermittingtheyoungtolearnsomethingsandforbiddingthemtolearnothers。Donotshrinkfromanswering。
Ath。MygoodCleinias，IratherthinkthatIamfortunate。
Cle。Howso？
Ath。IthinkthatIamnotwhollyinwantofapattern，forwhenI
considerthewordswhichwehavespokenfromearlydawnuntilnow，andwhich，asIbelieve，havebeeninspiredbyHeaven，theyappeartometobequitelikeapoem。WhenIreflecteduponallthesewordsofours。Inaturallyfeltpleasure，forofallthediscourseswhichI
haveeverlearntorheard，eitherinpoetryorprose，thisseemedtometobethejustest，andmostsuitableforyoungmentohear；I
cannotimagineanybetterpatternthanthiswhichtheguardianofthelawwhoisalsothedirectorofeducationcanhave。Hecannotdobetterthanadvisetheteacherstoteachtheyoungthesewordsandanywhichareofalikenature，ifheshouldhappentofindthem，eitherinpoetryorprose，orifhecomeacrossunwrittendiscoursesakintoours，heshouldcertainlypreservethem，andcommitthemtowriting。And，firstofall，heshallconstraintheteachersthemselvestolearnandapprovethem，andanyofthemwhowillnot，shallnotbeemployedbyhim，butthosewhomhefindsagreeinginhisjudgment，heshallmakeuseofandshallcommittothemtheinstructionandeducationofyouth。Andhereandonthiswiseletmyfancifultaleaboutlettersandteachersofletterscometoanend。
Cle。Idonotthink，Stranger，thatwehavewanderedoutoftheproposedlimitsoftheargument；butwhetherwearerightornotinourwholeconception，Icannotbeverycertain。
Ath。Thetruth，Cleinias，maybeexpectedtobecomeclearerwhen，aswehaveoftensaid，wearriveattheendofthewholediscussionaboutlaws。
Cle。Yes。
Ath。Andnowthatwehavedonewiththeteacherofletters，theteacherofthelyrehastoreceiveordersfromus。
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Ithinkthatwehaveonlytorecollectourpreviousdiscussions，andweshallbeabletogivesuitableregulationstouchingallthispartofinstructionandeducationtotheteachersofthelyre。
Cle。Towhatdoyourefer？
Ath。Weweresaying，ifIrememberrightly，thatthesixty-year-oldchoristersofDionysusweretobespeciallyquickintheirperceptionsofrhythmandmusicalcomposition，thattheymightbeabletodistinguishgoodandbadimitation，thatistosay，theimitationofthegoodorbadsoulwhenundertheinfluenceofpassion，rejectingtheoneanddisplayingtheotherinhymnsandsongs，charmingthesoulsofyouth，andinvitingthemtofollowandattainvirtuebythewayofimitation。
Cle。Verytrue。
Ath。Andwiththisview，theteacherandthelearneroughttousethesoundsofthelyre，becauseitsnotesarepure，theplayerwhoteachesandhispupilrenderingnotefornoteinunison；butcomplexity，andvariationofnotes，whenthestringsgiveonesoundandthepoetorcomposerofthemelodygivesanother-alsowhentheymakeconcordsandharmoniesinwhichlesserandgreaterintervals，slowandquick，orhighandlownotes，arecombined-or，again，whentheymakecomplexvariationsofrhythms，whichtheyadapttothenotesofthelyre-allthatsortofthingisnotsuitedtothosewhohavetoacquireaspeedyandusefulknowledgeofmusicinthreeyears；
foroppositeprinciplesareconfusing，andcreateadifficultyinlearning，andouryoungmenshouldlearnquickly，andtheirmerenecessaryacquirementsarenotfewortrifling，aswillbeshowninduecourse。Letthedirectorofeducationattendtotheprinciplesconcerningmusicwhichwearelayingdown。Astothesongsandwordsthemselveswhichthemastersofchorusesaretoteachandthecharacterofthem，theyhavebeenalreadydescribedbyus，andarethesamewhich，whenconsecratedandadaptedtothedifferentfestivals，wesaidweretobenefitcitiesbyaffordingthemaninnocentamusement。
Cle。That，again，istrue。
Ath。Thenlethimwhohasbeenelectedadirectorofmusicreceivetheserulesfromusascontainingtheverytruth；andmayheprosperinhisoffice!Letusnowproceedtolaydownotherrulesinadditiontotheprecedingaboutdancingandgymnasticexerciseingeneral。Havingsaidwhatremainedtobesaidabouttheteachingofmusic，letusspeakinlikemanneraboutgymnastic。Forboysandgirlsoughttolearntodanceandpractisegymnasticexercises-oughttheynot？
Cle。Yes。
Ath。Thentheboysoughttohavedancingmasters，andthegirlsdancingmistressestoexercisethem。
Cle。Verygood。
Ath。Thenoncemoreletussummonhimwhohasthechiefconcerninthebusiness，thesuperintendentofyouth[i。e。，thedirectorofeducation]；hewillhaveplentytodo，ifheistohavethechargeofmusicandgymnastic。
Cle。Buthowwilloldmanbeabletoattendtosuchgreatcharges？
Ath。Omyfriend，therewillbenodifficulty，forthelawhasalreadygivenandwillgivehimpermissiontoselectashisassistantsinthischargeanycitizens，maleorfemale，whomhedesires；andhewillknowwhomheoughttochoose，andwillbeanxiousnottomakeamistake，fromaduesenseofresponsibility，andfromaconsciousnessoftheimportanceofhisoffice，andalsobecausehewillconsiderthatifyoungmenhavebeenandarewellbroughtup，thenallthingsgoswimmingly，butifnot，itisnotmeettosay，nordowesay，whatwillfollow，lesttheregardersofomensshouldtakealarmaboutourinfantstate。Manythingshavebeensaidbyusaboutdancingandaboutgymnasticmovementsingeneral；forweincludeundergymnasticsallmilitaryexercises，suchasarchery，andallhurlingofweapons，andtheuseofthelightshield，andallfightingwithheavyarms，andmilitaryevolutions，andmovementsofarmies，andencampings，andallthatrelatestohorsemanship。Ofallthesethingsthereoughttobepublicteachers，receivingpayfromthestate，andtheirpupilsshouldbethemenandboysinthestate，andalsothegirlsandwomen，whoaretoknowallthesethings。Whiletheyareyetgirlstheyshouldhavepractiseddancinginarmsandthewholeartoffighting-whengrown-upwomen，theyshouldapplythemselvestoevolutionsandtactics，andthemodeofgroundingandtakinguparms；iffornootherreason，yetincasethewholemilitaryforceshouldhavetoleavethecityandcarryonoperationsofwaroutside，thatthosewhowillhavetoguardtheyoungandtherestofthecitymaybeequaltothetask；and，ontheotherhand，whenenemies，whetherbarbarianorHellenic，comefromwithoutwithmightyforceandmakeaviolentassaultuponthem，andthuscompelthemtofightforthepossessionofthecity，whichisfarfrombeinganimpossibility，greatwouldbethedisgracetothestate，ifthewomenhadbeensomiserablytrainedthattheycouldnotfightfortheiryoung，asbirdswill，againstanycreaturehoweverstrong，anddieorundergoanydanger，butmustinstantlyrushtothetemplesandcrowdatthealtarsandshrines，andbringuponhumannaturethereproach，thatofallanimalsmanisthemostcowardly!
Cle。Suchawantofeducation，Stranger，iscertainlyanunseemlythingtohappeninastate，aswellasagreatmisfortune。
Ath。Supposethatwecarryourlawtotheextentofsayingthatwomenoughtnottoneglectmilitarymatters，butthatallcitizens，maleandfemalealike，shallattendtothem？
Cle。Iquiteagree。
Ath。Ofwrestlingwehavespokeninpart，butofwhatIshouldcallthemostimportantpartwehavenotspoken，andcannoteasilyspeakwithoutshowingatthesametimebygestureaswellasinwordwhatwemean；whenwordandactioncombine，andnottillthen，weshallexplainclearlywhathasbeensaid，pointingoutthatofallmovementswrestlingismostakintothemilitaryart，andistobepursuedforthesakeofthis，andnotthisforthesakeofwrestling。
Cle。Excellent。