Ath。Perhaps；andyetIcannothelpobservingthatanyonewhoseesanythinggreatorpowerful，immediatelyhasthefeelingthat-“Iftheowneronlyknewhowtousehisgreatandnoblepossession，howhappywouldhebe，andwhatgreatresultswouldheachieve!“
Meg。Andwouldhenotbejustified？
Ath。Reflect；inwhatpointofviewdoesthissortofpraiseappearjust：First，inreferencetothequestioninhand：-Ifthethencommandershadknownhowtoarrangetheirarmyproperly，howwouldtheyhaveattainedsuccess？Wouldnotthishavebeentheway？
Theywouldhaveboundthemallfirmlytogetherandpreservedthemforever，givingthemfreedomanddominionatpleasure，combinedwiththepowerofdoinginthewholeworld，Hellenicandbarbarian，whatevertheyandtheirdescendantsdesired。Whatotheraimwouldtheyhavehad？
Meg。Verygood。
Ath。Supposeanyonewereinthesamewaytoexpresshisadmirationatthesightofgreatwealthorfamilyhonour，orthelike，hewouldpraisethemundertheideathatthroughthemhewouldattaineitherallorthegreaterandchiefpartofwhathedesires。
Meg。Hewould。
Ath。Well，now，anddoesnottheargumentshowthatthereisonecommondesireofallmankind？
Meg。Whatisit？
Ath。Thedesirewhichamanhas，thatallthings，ifpossible-atanyrate，thingshuman-maycometopassinaccordancewithhissoul’sdesire。
Meg。Certainly。
Ath。Andhavingthisdesirealways，andateverytimeoflife，inyouth，inmanhood，inage，hecannothelpalwaysprayingforthefulfilmentofit。
Meg。Nodoubt。
Ath。Andwejoinintheprayersofourfriends，andaskforthemwhattheyaskforthemselves。
Meg。Wedo。
Ath。Dearisthesontothefather-theyoungertotheelder。
Meg。Ofcourse。
Ath。Andyetthesonoftenpraystoobtainthingswhichthefatherpraysthathemaynotobtain。
Meg。Whenthesonisyoungandfoolish，youmean？
Ath。Yes；orwhenthefather，inthedotageofageortheheatofyouth，havingnosenseofrightandjustice，prayswithfervour，undertheinfluenceoffeelingsakintothoseofTheseuswhenhecursedtheunfortunateHippolytus，doyouimaginethattheson，havingasenseofrightandjustice，willjoininhisfather’sprayers？
Meg。Iunderstandyoutomeanthatamanshouldnotdesireorbeinahurrytohaveallthingsaccordingtohiswish，forhiswishmaybeatvariancewithhisreason。Buteverystateandeveryindividualoughttoprayandstriveforwisdom。
Ath。Yes；andIremember，andyouwillremember，whatIsaidatfirst，thatastatesmanandlegislatoroughttoordainlawswithaviewtowisdom；whileyouwerearguingthatthegoodlawgiveroughttoorderallwithaviewtowar。AndtothisIrepliedthattherewerefourvirtues，butthatuponyourviewoneofthemonlywastheaimoflegislation；whereasyououghttoregardallvirtue，andespeciallythatwhichcomesfirst，andistheleaderofalltherest-Imeanwisdomandmindandopinion，havingaffectionanddesireintheirtrain。Andnowtheargumentreturnstothesamepoint，andIsayoncemore，injestifyoulike，orinearnestifyoulike，thattheprayerofafoolisfullofdanger，beinglikelytoendintheoppositeofwhathedesires。Andifyouwouldratherreceivemywordsinearnest，Iamwillingthatyoushould；andyouwillfind，I
suspect，asIhavesaidalready，thatnotcowardicewasthecauseoftheruinoftheDoriankingsandoftheirwholedesign，norignoranceofmilitarymatters，eitheronthepartoftherulersoroftheirsubjects；buttheirmisfortuneswereduetotheirgeneraldegeneracy，andespeciallytotheirignoranceofthemostimportanthumanaffairs。Thatwasthen，andisstill，andalwayswillbethecase，asIwillendeavour，ifyouwillallowme，tomakeoutanddemonstrateaswellasIamabletoyouwhoaremyfriends，inthecourseoftheargument。
Cle。Praygoon，Stranger；-complimentsaretroublesome，butwewillshow，notinwordbutindeed，howgreatlyweprizeyourwords，forwewillgivethemourbestattention；andthatisthewayinwhichafreemanbestshowshisapprovalordisapproval。
Meg。Excellent，Cleinias；letusdoasyousay。
Cle。Byallmeans，ifHeavenwills。Goon。
Ath。Well，then，proceedinginthesametrainofthought，IsaythatthegreatestignorancewastheruinoftheDorianpower，andthatnow，asthen，ignoranceisruin。Andifthisbetrue，thelegislatormustendeavourtoimplantwisdominstates，andbanishignorancetotheutmostofhispower。
Cle。Thatisevident。
Ath。Thennowconsiderwhatisreallythegreatestignorance。I
shouldliketoknowwhetheryouandMegilluswouldagreewithmeinwhatIamabouttosay；formyopinionis-
Cle。What？
Ath。Thatthegreatestignoranceiswhenamanhatesthatwhichheneverthelessthinkstobegoodandnoble，andlovesandembracesthatwhichheknowstobeunrighteousandevil。Thisdisagreementbetweenthesenseofpleasureandthejudgmentofreasoninthesoulis，inmyopinion，theworstignorance；andalsothegreatest，becauseaffectingthegreatmassofthehumansoul；fortheprinciplewhichfeelspleasureandpainintheindividualislikethemassorpopulaceinastate。Andwhenthesoulisopposedtoknowledge，oropinion，orreason，whicharehernaturallords，thatIcallfolly，justasinthestate，whenthemultituderefusestoobeytheirrulersandthelaws；or，again，intheindividual，whenfairreasoningshavetheirhabitationinthesoulandyetdonogood，butratherthereverseofgood。AllthesecasesItermtheworstignorance，whetherinindividualsorinstates。Youwillunderstand，Stranger，thatI
amspeakingofsomethingwhichisverydifferentfromtheignoranceofhandicraftsmen。
Cle。Yes，myfriend，weunderstandandagree。
Ath。Letus，then，inthefirstplacedeclareandaffirmthatthecitizenwhodoesnotknowthesethingsoughtnevertohaveanykindofauthorityentrustedtohim：hemustbestigmatizedasignorant，eventhoughhebeversedincalculationandskilledinallsortsofaccomplishments，andfeatsofmentaldexterity；andtheoppositearetobecalledwise，evenalthough，inthewordsoftheproverb，theyknowneitherhowtoreadnorhowtoswim；andtothem，astomenofsense，authorityistobecommitted。For，Omyfriends，howcantherebetheleastshadowofwisdomwhenthereisnoharmony？Thereisnone；butthenoblestandgreatestofharmoniesmaybetrulysaidtobethegreatestwisdom；andofthisheisapartakerwholivesaccordingtoreason；whereashewhoisdevoidofreasonisthedestroyerofhishouseandtheveryoppositeofasaviourofthestate：heisutterlyignorantofpoliticalwisdom。Letthis，then，asIwassaying，belaiddownbyus。
Cle。Letitbesolaiddown。
Ath。Isupposethattheremustberulersandsubjectsinstates？
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Andwhataretheprinciplesonwhichmenruleandobeyincities，whethergreatorsmall；andsimilarlyinfamilies？Whatarethey，andhowmanyinnumber？Istherenotoneclaimofauthoritywhichisalwaysjust-thatoffathersandmothersandingeneralofprogenitorstoruleovertheiroffspring？
Cle。Thereis。
Ath。Nextfollowstheprinciplethatthenobleshouldruleovertheignoble；and，thirdly，thattheeldershouldruleandtheyoungerobey？
Cle。Tobesure。
Ath。And，fourthly，thatslavesshouldberuled，andtheirmastersrule？
Cle。Ofcourse。
Ath。Fifthly，ifIamnotmistaken，comestheprinciplethatthestrongershallrule，andtheweakerberuled？
Cle。Thatisarulenottobedisobeyed。
Ath。Yes，andarulewhichprevailsverywidelyamongallcreatures，andisaccordingtonature，astheThebanpoetPindaroncesaid；andthesixthprinciple，andthegreatestofall，is，thatthewiseshouldleadandcommand，andtheignorantfollowandobey；andyet，OthoumostwisePindar，asIshouldreplyhim，thissurelyisnotcontrarytonature，butaccordingtonature，beingtheruleoflawoverwillingsubjects，andnotaruleofcompulsion。
Cle。Mosttrue。
Ath。Thereisaseventhkindofrulewhichisawardedbylot，andisdeartotheGodsandatokenofgoodfortune：heonwhomthelotfallsisaruler，andhewhofailsinobtainingthelotgoesawayandisthesubject；andthisweaffirmtobequitejust。
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。“Thennow，“aswesayplayfullytoanyofthosewholightlyundertakethemakingoflaws，“yousee，legislator，theprinciplesofgovernment，howmanytheyare，andthattheyarenaturallyopposedtoeachother。Therewehavediscoveredafountain-headofseditions，towhichyoumustattend。And，first，wewillaskyoutoconsiderwithus，howandinwhatrespectthekingsofArgosandMesseneviolatedtheseourmaxims，andruinedthemselvesandthegreatandfamousHellenicpoweroftheoldentime。WasitbecausetheydidnotknowhowwiselyHesiodspokewhenhesaidthatthehalfisoftenmorethanthewhole？Hismeaningwas，thatwhentotakethewholewouldbedangerous，andtotakethehalfwouldbethesafeandmoderatecourse，thenthemoderateorbetterwasmorethantheimmoderateorworse。“
Cle。Verytrue。
Ath。Andmaywesupposethisimmoderatespirittobemorefatalwhenfoundamongkingsthanwhenamongpeoples？
Cle。Theprobabilityisthatignorancewillbeadisorderespeciallyprevalentamongkings，becausetheyleadaproudandluxuriouslife。
Ath。Isitnotpalpablethatthechiefaimofthekingsofthattimewastogetthebetteroftheestablishedlaws，andthattheywerenotinharmonywiththeprincipleswhichtheyhadagreedtoobservebywordandoath？Thiswantofharmonymayhavehadtheappearanceofwisdom，butwasreally，asweassert，thegreatestignorance，andutterlyoverthrewthewholeempirebydissonanceandharshdiscord。
Cle。Verylikely。
Ath。Good；andwhatmeasuresoughtthelegislatortohavethentakeninordertoavertthiscalamity？Trulythereisnogreatwisdominknowing，andnogreatdifficultyintelling，aftertheevilhashappened；buttohaveforeseentheremedyatthetimewouldhavetakenamuchwiserheadthanours。
Meg。Whatdoyoumean？
Ath。AnyonewholooksatwhathasoccurredwithyouLacedaemonians，Megillus，mayeasilyknowandmayeasilysaywhatoughttohavebeendoneatthattime。
Meg。Speakalittlemoreclearly。
Ath。NothingcanbeclearerthantheobservationwhichIamabouttomake。
Meg。Whatisit？