Ath。Iamgladtohearthatyouagreewithme；for，indeed，thedisciplineofpleasureandpainwhich，whenrightlyordered，isaprincipleofeducation，hasbeenoftenrelaxedandcorruptedinhumanlife。AndtheGods，pityingthetoilswhichourraceisborntoundergo，haveappointedholyfestivals，whereinmenalternaterestwithlabour；andhavegiventhemtheMusesandApollo，theleaderoftheMuses，andDionysus，tobecompanionsintheirrevels，thattheymayimprovetheireducationbytakingpartinthefestivalsoftheGods，andwiththeirhelp。Ishouldliketoknowwhetheracommonsayingisinouropiniontruetonatureornot。Formensaythattheyoungofallcreaturescannotbequietintheirbodiesorintheirvoices；theyarealwayswantingtomoveandcryout；someleapingandskipping，andoverflowingwithsportivenessanddelightatsomething，othersutteringallsortsofcries。But，whereastheanimalshavenoperceptionoforderordisorderintheirmovements，thatis，ofrhythmorharmony，astheyarecalled，tous，theGods，who，aswesay，havebeenappointedtobeourcompanionsinthedance，havegiventhepleasurablesenseofharmonyandrhythm；andsotheystirusintolife，andwefollowthem，joininghandstogetherindancesandsongs；andthesetheycallchoruses，whichisatermnaturallyexpressiveofcheerfulness。Shallwebegin，then，withtheacknowledgmentthateducationisfirstgiventhroughApolloandtheMuses？Whatdoyousay？
Cle。Iassent。
Ath。Andtheuneducatedishewhohasnotbeentrainedinthechorus，andtheeducatedishewhohasbeenwelltrained？
Cle。Certainly。
Ath。Andthechorusismadeupoftwoparts，danceandsong？
Cle。True。
Ath。Thenhewhoiswelleducatedwillbeabletosinganddancewell？
Cle。Isupposethathewill。
Ath。Letussee；whatarewesaying？
Cle。What？
Ath。Hesingswellanddanceswell；nowmustweaddthathesingswhatisgoodanddanceswhatisgood？
Cle。Letusmaketheaddition。
Ath。Wewillsupposethatheknowsthegoodtobegood，andthebadtobebad，andmakesuseofthemaccordingly：whichnowisthebettertrainedindancingandmusic-hewhoisabletomovehisbodyandtousehisvoiceinwhatisunderstoodtobetherightmanner，buthasnodelightingoodorhatredofevil；orhewhoisincorrectingestureandvoice，butisrightinhissenseofpleasureandpain，andwelcomeswhatisgood，andisoffendedatwhatisevil？
Cle。Thereisagreatdifference，Stranger，inthetwokindsofeducation。
Ath。Ifwethreeknowwhatisgoodinsonganddance，thenwetrulyknowalsowhoiseducatedandwhoisuneducated；butifnot，thenwecertainlyshallnotknowwhereinliesthesafeguardofeducation，andwhetherthereisanyornot。
Cle。True。
Ath。Letusfollowthescentlikehounds，andgoinpursuitofbeautyoffigure，andmelody，andsong，anddance；iftheseescapeus，therewillbenouseintalkingabouttrueeducation，whetherHellenicorbarbarian。
Cle。Yes。
Ath。Andwhatisbeautyoffigure，orbeautifulmelody？Whenamanlysoulisintrouble，andwhenacowardlysoulisinsimilarcase，aretheylikelytousethesamefiguresandgestures，ortogiveutterancetothesamesounds？
Cle。Howcanthey，whentheverycoloursoftheirfacesdiffer？
Ath。Good，myfriend；Imayobserve，however，inpassing，thatinmusictherecertainlyarefiguresandtherearemelodies：andmusicisconcernedwithharmonyandrhythm，sothatyoumayspeakofamelodyorfigurehavinggoodrhythmorgoodharmony-thetermiscorrectenough；buttospeakmetaphoricallyofamelodyorfigurehavinga“goodcolour，“asthemastersofchorusesdo，isnotallowable，althoughyoucanspeakofthemelodiesorfiguresofthebraveandthecoward，praisingtheoneandcensuringtheother。Andnottobetedious，letussaythatthefiguresandmelodieswhichareexpressiveofvirtueofsoulorbody，orofimagesofvirtue，arewithoutexceptiongood，andthosewhichareexpressiveofvicearethereverseofgood。
Cle。Yoursuggestionisexcellent；andletusanswerthatthesethingsareso。
Ath。Oncemore，areallofusequallydelightedwitheverysortofdance？
Cle。Farotherwise。
Ath。What，then，leadsusastray？Arebeautifulthingsnotthesametousall，oraretheythesameinthemselves，butnotinouropinionofthem？Fornoonewilladmitthatformsofviceinthedancearemorebeautifulthanformsofvirtue，orthathehimselfdelightsintheformsofvice，andothersinamuseofanothercharacter。Andyetmostpersonssay，thattheexcellenceofmusicistogivepleasuretooursouls。Butthisisintolerableandblasphemous；thereis，however，amuchmoreplausibleaccountofthedelusion。
Cle。What？
Ath。Theadaptationofarttothecharactersofmen。Choricmovementsareimitationsofmannersoccurringinvariousactions，fortunes，dispositions-eachparticularisimitated，andthosetowhomthewords，orsongs，ordancesaresuited，eitherbynatureorhabitorboth，cannothelpfeelingpleasureinthemandapplaudingthem，andcallingthembeautiful。Butthosewhosenatures，orways，orhabitsareunsuitedtothem，cannotdelightinthemorapplaudthem，andtheycallthembase。Thereareothers，again，whosenaturesarerightandtheirhabitswrong，orwhosehabitsarerightandtheirnatureswrong，andtheypraiseonething，butarepleasedatanother。Fortheysaythatalltheseimitationsarepleasant，butnotgood。Andinthepresenceofthosewhomtheythinkwise，theyareashamedofdancingandsinginginthebasermanner，orofdeliberatelylendinganycountenancetosuchproceedings；andyet，theyhaveasecretpleasureinthem。
Cle。Verytrue。
Ath。Andisanyharmdonetotheloverofviciousdancesorsongs，oranygooddonetotheapproveroftheoppositesortofpleasure？
Cle。Ithinkthatthereis。
Ath。“Ithink“isnottheword，butIwouldsay，rather，“Iamcertain。“Formusttheynothavethesameeffectaswhenamanassociateswithbadcharacters，whomhelikesandapprovesratherthandislikes，andonlycensuresplayfullybecausehehasasuspicionofhisownbadness？Inthatcase，hewhotakespleasureinthemwillsurelybecomelikethoseinwhomhetakespleasure，eventhoughhebeashamedtopraisethem。Andwhatgreatergoodorevilcananydestinyevermakeusundergo？
Cle。Iknowofnone。
Ath。Theninacitywhichhasgoodlaws，orinfutureagesistohavethem，bearinginmindtheinstructionandamusementwhicharegivenbymusic，canwesupposethatthepoetsaretobeallowedtoteachinthedanceanythingwhichtheythemselveslike，inthewayofrhythm，ormelody，orwords，totheyoungchildrenofanywell-conditionedparents？Isthepoettotrainhischorusesashepleases，withoutreferencetovirtueorvice？
Cle。Thatissurelyquiteunreasonable，andisnottobethoughtof。
Ath。AndyethemaydothisinalmostanystatewiththeexceptionofEgypt。
Cle。AndwhatarethelawsaboutmusicanddancinginEgypt？
Ath。YouwillwonderwhenItellyou：Longagotheyappeartohaverecognizedtheveryprincipleofwhichwearenowspeaking-thattheiryoungcitizensmustbehabituatedtoformsandstrainsofvirtue。Thesetheyfixed，andexhibitedthepatternsofthemintheirtemples；andnopainterorartistisallowedtoinnovateuponthem，ortoleavethetraditionalformsandinventnewones。Tothisday，noalterationisallowedeitherinthesearts，orinmusicatall。Andyouwillfindthattheirworksofartarepaintedormouldedinthesameformswhichtheyhadtenthousandyearsago；-thisisliterallytrueandnoexaggeration-theirancientpaintingsandsculpturesarenotawhitbetterorworsethantheworkofto-day，butaremadewithjustthesameskill。
Cle。Howextraordinary!
Ath。Ishouldrathersay，Howstatesmanlike，howworthyofalegislator!IknowthatotherthingsinEgyptarenatsowell。ButwhatIamtellingyouaboutmusicistrueanddeservingofconsideration，becauseshowingthatalawgivermayinstitutemelodieswhichhaveanaturaltruthandcorrectnesswithoutanyfearoffailure。Todothis，however，mustbetheworkofGod，orofadivineperson；inEgypttheyhaveatraditionthattheirancientchantswhichhavebeenpreservedforsomanyagesarethecompositionoftheGoddessIsis。Andtherefore，asIwassaying，ifapersoncanonlyfindinanywaythenaturalmelodies，hemayconfidentlyembodytheminafixedandlegalform。Fortheloveofnoveltywhicharisesoutofpleasureinthenewandwearinessoftheold，hasnotstrengthenoughtocorrupttheconsecratedsonganddance，underthepleathattheyhavebecomeantiquated。Atanyrate，theyarefarfrombeingcorruptedinEgypt。
Cle。Yourargumentsseemtoproveyourpoint。
Ath。Maywenotconfidentlysaythatthetrueuseofmusicandofchoralfestivitiesisasfollows：Werejoicewhenwethinkthatweprosper，andagainwethinkthatweprosperwhenwerejoice？
Cle。Exactly。
Ath。Andwhenrejoicinginourgoodfortune，weareunabletobestill？
Cle。True。
Ath。Ouryoungmenbreakforthintodancingandsinging，andwewhoaretheireldersdeemthatwearefulfillingourpartinlifewhenwelookonatthem。Havinglostouragility，wedelightintheirsportsandmerry-making，becausewelovetothinkofourformerselves；andgladlyinstitutecontestsforthosewhoareabletoawakeninusthememoryofouryouth。
Cle。Verytrue。
Ath。Isitaltogetherunmeaningtosay，asthecommonpeopledoaboutfestivals，thatheshouldbeadjudgedthewisestofmen，andthewinnerofthepalm，whogivesusthegreatestamountofpleasureandmirth？Foronsuchoccasions，andwhenmirthistheorderoftheday，oughtnothetobehonouredmost，and，asIwassaying，bearthepalm，whogivesmostmirthtothegreatestnumber？Nowisthisatruewayofspeakingorofacting？
Cle。Possibly。